tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post8549387253770184750..comments2024-03-15T04:45:39.805-05:00Comments on Take Your Vitamin Z: Some Potential Solutions To The Celebrity Pastor Critique From Dr. Carl TruemanVitamin Zhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12327369978082172135noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post-4032328758660690692011-05-01T15:26:43.342-05:002011-05-01T15:26:43.342-05:00A well thought out post...I appreciate the balance...A well thought out post...I appreciate the balance. I've been more and more impressed with the thought that not only are individual believers given spiritual gifts in order to minister to the body, but whole churches are also particularly gifted by the Spirit to play a specific role in the Body as a whole. Understanding this leaves us free to appreciate churches of all sizes and styles, so long as they are faithfully and boldly proclaiming the gospel. <br /><br />May the Lord give us wisdom and humility to navigate the path he has set before us!Benhttp://www.theeverlastingfallout.com/readnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post-72193387003188987042011-05-01T05:37:31.994-05:002011-05-01T05:37:31.994-05:00The insight is great. I agree with your words yet ...The insight is great. I agree with your words yet Trueman has very valid point of the favoritism of such mega-pastors.<br /><br />Why do events have to boast in who is addressing the comers<br /><br />why do then need VIP seats etc<br /><br />Yet you are right, their fame is unavoidable, and they didn't wish it upon themselves to make their name greatTim Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post-13439194450791200362011-04-30T17:24:31.404-05:002011-04-30T17:24:31.404-05:00Michael,
great comments. i agree.
zMichael,<br /><br />great comments. i agree.<br /><br />zVitamin Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12327369978082172135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post-30499851187639255012011-04-30T08:48:08.685-05:002011-04-30T08:48:08.685-05:00First off, I agree with everything you've said...First off, I agree with everything you've said. I have worked with small groups at a large and growing church for the past three years and know full well the absolute necessity for well-trained, well-equipped leaders who can shepherd and care for God's people, under the authority of the elders. I believe the continual development of such leaders is indispensable to the care and healthy growth of a growing church. However, I still think Trueman makes some important points that deserve attention:<br /><br />1. It seems to me that many times in larger churches elders become something more akin to "ministry managers" than shepherds of God's people. These churches reach a certain critical mass, and one day the congregation finds that their pastors are no longer accessible. In fact, a large percentage of the congregation may not even know one of their pastors personally, and because there are ministries to be managed, new strategies to be developed, and the all the rest, the pastors don't have time for pastoral care visits, personal meetings, or phone conversations with church members. I don't know whether or not this is the case with the person who sent the email to Trueman. Regardless, I have seen first hand that this becomes a very real issue in larger churches. <br /><br />2. I could be totally wrong about this one, and I'm willing to be proven wrong, but it seems to me that sometimes, at least, celebrity-type senior pastors of megachurches exist above the messiness of ministry among broken people. They are responsible for preparing and preaching sermons, casting vision, and may write books, speak at conferences and occupy influential positions in evangelicalism - but are they in the trenches? Do they know their people's joys, burdens, questions, and sorrows. Are they engaged in the private ministry of the Word as well as the public ministry of the Word. At the end of the day, how often do they find themselves preparing sermons sequestered in a study away from the very pain and struggle of the people to whom they will be delivering the sermons? How often do at least some of them find themselves preaching those same sermons to a people they don't really know? <br /><br />In this regard, I think Trueman makes a good point: If this is the case, it is a travesty of what Christians and the church have thought pastors should be throughout the ages.<br /><br />3. I don't think there can be any doubt that a celebrity, cult of personality type culture exists within American evangelicalism, especially within more Reformed circles. And personally, I think Trueman has the right idea when he reminds his Westminster students that such megachurch ministries bear no resemblance to the kinds of ministries they are going to experience. Most pastors will end up in churches where they are the only staff member, where they are responsible for everything, where they'll never be given an opportunity to speak at a conference, much less be given time away from their responsibilities to write a book. Who is celebrating the in-the-trenches, slugging it out, year-after-year faithfulness of these unsung heroes? In the end, if we're honest, who really wants to be the kind of pastor who has a 20-30 year run in a small church, in a small town, with little influence, little credit, and to finish the race having authored no books, no articles, no blogs and spoken at no conferences. I have to admit, having been on staff in a large, growing, increasingly influential church that I've struggled with these kinds of questions in my own heart, and I'm sure there are others who do too. That's where I think the celebrity pastor culture that exists in many circles doesn't help at all.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05593277375181910088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post-86167101471228545182011-04-29T22:52:57.049-05:002011-04-29T22:52:57.049-05:00Vitamin Z
You did not say that "as God suppl...Vitamin Z<br /><br />You did not say that "as God supplies the growth" when you made the statement "if we are caring for our people as we should our churches are going to grow"<br /><br />If you want to stand behind that statement, then do so, but it was a pretty clear if-then statement with no caveat. <br /><br />Do I need to be Jeremiah to point this out?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post-85296843581386202952011-04-29T15:56:49.038-05:002011-04-29T15:56:49.038-05:00As someone who has gone to large and small churche...As someone who has gone to large and small churches for 28 years, I now prefer large churches for one primary reason. It seems that serving in any significant position at many small churches is an issue of favoritism. Who is closest with the pastor and his wife? Whereas at large churches, the pastors don't have to control everything, and so many people can serve without have to win a popularity contest. I think that some churches stay small because the pastors want to control more than they want growth. You can't have both. I think many large churches have grown big because the people are able to not only sit in a pew, but have significant contributions. When the only role at a small church is to sit in the pew, sit in the pastor's wife's Bible study (I'm a woman), or bring a cassorole, you feel unnecessary. At large churches, I can often contribute far more significantly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post-88667704159177090482011-04-29T10:55:35.208-05:002011-04-29T10:55:35.208-05:00I did say "as God supplies the growth". ...I did say "as God supplies the growth". God calls some to a ministry like Jeremiah. No doubt. Is that you?Vitamin Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12327369978082172135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post-48879396043569909032011-04-29T10:54:02.512-05:002011-04-29T10:54:02.512-05:00Your point in number 5 that churches will always g...Your point in number 5 that churches will always grow if we care for the people does not seem to be supported by Scripture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post-69469862805691326812011-04-29T08:27:32.518-05:002011-04-29T08:27:32.518-05:00Thank you for taking the critique to the place it ...Thank you for taking the critique to the place it needs to go. I am thankful that so many people are drawn to hear good preaching from these men, considering how many flock to the false teaching. I just wish some of the marketing and promotion was calmed down. It seems like many of the people who attend these conferences are "making an investment" for whatever they are self-promoting.Aimee Byrdhttp://www.housewifetheologian.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post-16208984815555089132011-04-28T11:15:41.434-05:002011-04-28T11:15:41.434-05:00excellent. VERY good thoughts.excellent. VERY good thoughts.Lonnalee Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09454744953047744607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post-85284685246221587822011-04-28T07:59:28.196-05:002011-04-28T07:59:28.196-05:00Zach,
I wonder too how many pastors, church leader...Zach,<br />I wonder too how many pastors, church leaders, and up and comers actually pray that they would <i>not</i> become famous. I wonder if Proverbs 30:8 has any application here, where it says "give me neither poverty nor riches." I know that the verse addresses monetary riches, but could the same be said here. How many well known bloggers, pastors, and Christian leaders choose to fight daily on their knees to not be made much of. I would suspect that for those in the evangelical celebrity sub-culture, this is a constant and difficult battle. <br /><br />I know that for me, that would be an issue.Jason Kanzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14156951203860604405noreply@blogger.com