tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post7468876096841485057..comments2024-03-15T04:45:39.805-05:00Comments on Take Your Vitamin Z: Does the Doctrine of Election Trouble You?Vitamin Zhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12327369978082172135noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post-82811053638873909142011-09-14T18:51:29.955-05:002011-09-14T18:51:29.955-05:00Since we are all totally depraved and unable to re...Since we are all totally depraved and unable to respond without the grace of God, it still seems arbitrary that he would only choose certain individuals for salvation. But is grace really irresistible? Did not the Pharisees and the lawyers reject "the purpose of God for themselves" (Luke 7:30)? Did not Stephen characterize some of the Jewish people as those who "always resist the Holy Spirit" (Acts 7:51)? Jesus says that he would have gathered the children of Jerusalem, but they "would not" (Luke 13:34). It seems to me that the biblical doctrine of election is based on God's foreknowledge (1 Peter 1:1-2; Romans 8:29) and/or it has to do with the church, the body of Christ, rather than individuals that is elect: all who are in Christ are the elect. A difficult question, but if we are all totally incapable of responding to God's call, then it would seem to be negligence on his part not to elect all (if we define election as Calvinists do).J. Gary Ellisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08457017339061570406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post-15233582669319990692011-09-14T18:50:26.548-05:002011-09-14T18:50:26.548-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.J. Gary Ellisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08457017339061570406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post-76611383445421223092011-09-14T15:38:17.272-05:002011-09-14T15:38:17.272-05:00"No. No, it really doesn't. It fails on e..."No. No, it really doesn't. It fails on every level. As an explanation it is extremely unlikely to satisfy anyone who is not simply looking for a pat excuse, however flimsy, to move along past the problem.<br /><br />That it worked for you is a shame I hope you grow to regret."<br /><br />Man, harsh. Tough crowd here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post-10934522223719608922011-09-14T15:11:45.645-05:002011-09-14T15:11:45.645-05:00"That kind of response, grounded as I believe..."That kind of response, grounded as I believe that it is in Scriptural truth, does put a different complexion on things, doesn’t it?"<br /><br />No. No, it really doesn't. It fails on every level. As an explanation it is extremely unlikely to satisfy anyone who is not simply looking for a pat excuse, however flimsy, to move along past the problem.<br /><br />That it worked for you is a shame I hope you grow to regret.Adamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post-86686296242842249212011-09-14T10:17:06.380-05:002011-09-14T10:17:06.380-05:00I personally think it is a wonderful example. It m...I personally think it is a wonderful example. It mirrors the Westminster Confession on Effectual Calling quite well.<br /><br />Ch. X.1 - All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, He is pleased, in His appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by His word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature to grace and salvation, by Jesus Christ; enlightening thier minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and, by His almighty power, determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ: yet so, as they come most freely, being made willing by His grace.<br /><br />Ch. X.2 - This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from any thing at all foreseen in man, who is altogether passive therein, until being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit, he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it.<br /><br />The response to the call is a both/and. God effectually calls us so that we are them able to freely choose Him. We are called out of our natural state (sin, misery, death) and passive in salvation but enable by the Spirit to answer the call of God and receive the grace of salvation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21365935.post-32759057552692663052011-09-14T09:38:27.181-05:002011-09-14T09:38:27.181-05:00This is a terrible example, because it uses free w...This is a terrible example, because it uses free will ("if you perish in hell, blame yourself, as it is entirely your fault") to support the doctrine of election. In so doing, it undermines precisely what it's trying to prove.the sifenoreply@blogger.com