Here is a link to one of Rob Bell's Nooma videos, entitled "Bullhorn Guy". In sum, it is his plea to all those horrible street preachers, and college campus preachers, to stop screaming at people and calling them horrible names. For sure this needs to be said.
Rob needs to be commended. He is a great example of someone who is making short films that seem to be a step above the norm for "Christian" art. It is very high quality. I would not have a problem showing this to any of my unbelieving friends. It's great.
I agree with alot of what Rob says, but it seems that there are some holes in his Biblical reasoning, or at least there are some things that need further clarification. I would love to read your thoughts on the video after you watch it. (WMA)
The guys at Reformed Evangelist blog have posted their take here. I can resonate with some of what the author is saying, but I fear that the tone in the writing may feed the common stereo-type that Calvinists are a bit ungracious in their critiques of someone else's differing view.
15 comments:
Z. Thanks for sharing. I'd heard a ton about these videos, but whenever you watch the promos, you only get a 30 second clip. It was good to watch it in its entirety.
Artistically it's great. I think it's interesting to see the media of video contain dynamic teaching in such a creative way.
Certainly some of his teaching is lacking in sound doctrine. Rather than expend a lot of energy tearing apart Rob Bell’s theology, I am going to take his artistic concept and let it be an inspiration for my ministry.
z,
I have seen these videos and rather like them. And I hope I don't come across as a contrarian, but who says there isn't a place for "street preacher guy"? The only name I've heard street preacher call me is "sinner" (Brother Phelps notwithstanding)and I guess he was calling a spade a spade.
Brother Bell is loosely affiliated with the Emergent movement and so I reckon that is why the cats at Reformed blog are taking a closer look. As for me, it has always seemed a bit disingenuous to call out every other form of evangelism outside of the "cool Christian" M.O. (which Brother Bell seems to subscribe to...and he is pretty cool). I like you.
in regards to "street preachers" i have mixed feelings. each year campus crusade invites this preacher guy to speak on campus. i went one day...and basically it was him making broad statements until someone in the crowd engaged him on some matter such as abortion, homosexuality, etc. he preached the gospel...he preached that God is love...he preached the wrath of God. how could i really argue against him. yet...the way the entire thing was set up made me frustrated. i didn't want to align myself with this street preacher dude... does that mean i'm not bold w/ the gospel? i am ashamed of my faith? i left the day feeling guilty, ashamed and confused.
so..i agree w/ much of what Rob Bell was pushing in this video.... i question the strategy of this type of preaching. how many people do you see placing their faith on the lawn of a campus in front of the bullhorn guy? not too many. but........ what of all the conversation that is struck up b/c of this guys presence on campus? what does one make of the articles written in the schools paper talking about this? the controversy that is stirred merely by this guys presence has the possibility to strike up many conversations across campus. conversations that DO address important issues. that allow Christians to share their real faith w/ their friends.
so...while i don't like the whole concept of the 'bullhorn guy' i do see the use of guys like these. maybe they aren't the answer to winning scores of people to faith...but, what if their mere presence is enough to stir w/n the hearts of a few people to begin seeking and asking more questions? that's why i don't like the negativity i see in rob bell's addressment of this issue. God can and will use all things for his glory....even if it doesn't sit well in our hearts.
those are my thoughts.
I agree with much of what was said. Here are my thoughts:
First, I find Rob Bell to be inspirational. When I see his videos, it challenges my faith and leads me to ask questions about how I am living and what it means for my faith. I have never been challenged by a street preacher apart from trying to deal with my contempt.
Second, although I know a lot of Christians, I know of no one who has ever been saved by a street preacher. Not one. Of the people I know who came to faith as adults, it was through the love of other adults and friends, not fear of eternal damnation. I think these people came to explore these issues in greater depth further into their Christian walk. Salvation first, then sanctification.
Third, many years ago, Becky Pippert wrote a book entitled "Lifestyle Evangelism" which has been inspirational for many believers in terms of ministering to others. It is not about handing out 50 tracts a day...it is about relationships. I believe Christ was also about relationships. He preached love and he preached repentance, but the bottom line is that he was interested in people.
I recognize that my opinion may not be the most popular. I am trying not to get my theology lost in the "artistic concept" of Rob Bell. I pray that we all continue to seek a deeper understanding of Christ and His will for our lives.
JKanz
I did not like Rob Bell’s use of story from John 8 – woman at the well. Said “neither do I condemn you, but also said “go and sin no more” - it was love plus challenge, I think this is key. I don’t think Rob would say that we shouldn’t challenge people, but I think he needed to clarify that use of the text a bit better.
z
I would like to share some views with you in concern with New Age that is coming in the church and we as Christians are blinded.
??That Day shall not come unless there come a great falling away first.? (2 Thessalonians 2:3)
We know by these words that before Jesus returns, great deception will come to the church. Right now, we are totally unprepared for it. One of the crying alarms in my heart is the almost total lack of discernment in the church. We have come to a place where we are so conditioned to the slow infiltration of all things sensual and worldly, that we judge the rightness of a thing based on how we feel, how something looks, how big and how popular something is. Humans by nature are trend junkies. The church, through compromise, have become trend junkies. There is always the ?latest? thing to make your church a success, make your program work, etc. There is something to be said for the steady faithfulness of a tiny church. In Revelation I never read Jesus commending a church for their astonishing growth. He does commend them for faithfulness under fire.
I recently viewed a new DVD series designed for teens and college kids. It’s slick, MTV quality and ?cool.? It is going to be marketed - and accepted - hugely in youth groups. It’s called ?Nooma? series by Mars Hill Pastor Rob Bell. I watched one entitled ?Bullhorn? and it made me spiritually sick. The background for Bell’s message is a fat, bald, coke-bottle glasses middle-aged man with shirttail hanging out and passing out literature and using a bullhorn to do street evangelism.
Bell went on to make the preacher come across as a fool, and worse - he proclaims that this man is actually turning people AWAY from Christ, and that he thinks even Jesus thinks he’s an embarrassment. Bell peppers his short message with new-age words like ?diversity?, ?inclusiveness? etc. It was very slick, and yes, many of us have seen someone like that. But the real message was, underlying it all, that evangelism is uncool and unnecessary, that we need to reach people by caring and putting and arm around their shoulder, and listening. These ?bullhorn? types are a terrible offense, and Jesus thinks so too.
What a damnable lie.
Our problem is not that too many bullhorn preachers have taken to the streets. The real problem is that the overwhelming majority of Christian youth don’t share their faith AT ALL. They have NEVER evangelized, never been on the street and WILL not. This DVD, if it gains a wide audience, is a preemptive strike designed by Satan to GUT this generation of its mandate to evangelize! They already do not know how and do not want to. This DVD’s message is, it is WRONG to, it is UNCOOL to, and Jesus doesn’t like it either.
Jesus caused many people to turn away from following Him. But Jesus wasn’t trying to attract large crowds. He wanted disciples!
You can tell me that I?m wrong in attacking Rob Bell ministry “Nooma” like I’ve been told by friends and pastors but i will not hide the fact that I Love Jesus and the fact that Jesus shared his gospel in a threatening way too (exp. Jesus Speaking Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works) If you still think that I am wrong then i’ll be the Bullhorn Guy and I will love God in a fearful way Amen.
I think it is very easy for everyone to sit around and tear apart other people's teachings. I have often wondered why and how this is a Godly thing.
Why are you all right and someone like R. Bell is wrong? I personally think if you were to listen to more of what Bell preaches many of you would retract your statements. You can listen to his sermons online at the Mars Hill web site.
I am sure this will not sit pretty with some of you, however I would like to hear more about this and why it is okay to sit and tear down people's ministries. I find no value in that all. One last question...has any of this been said to R. Bell's face or has he been copied in on any of this? Just wondering.
Tim said "I think it is very easy for everyone to sit around and tear apart other people's teachings. I have often wondered why and how this is a Godly thing."
Instead maybe we should follow Rob's example and make videos telling people that open air preaching is ineffective, wrong and damaging to Christianity. Then we can sell them and spread our assaults all over the world...
I'll stick to dealing with these issues through my discussions on the blog... and importantly, keep on sharing my faith.
I think that is a great idea. I am sorry to upset some people, that is not my intention. I have just noticed that these blog entries seem to be pretty critical. I am not the first person that has thought this, many of the people that I have passed a lot these blog sites on to have mentioned this to me.
It appears that critical(constructive) comments are okay, as long as they are not pointed at any of you.
I am thankful for this dialog.
Nacho, how are words like diversity and inclusiveness not important in the church. I currently attend a church where everyone dresses the same and looks the same. When new people come to the church for the first time, they don't come back, unless they look like one of us. Why? Because there is no diversity, and we are not very good at including others. That is a shame.
I don't think the concepts of diversity or inclusiveness is meant to suggest that we should include all religious faiths or accept all sins. I think what it means as that we are all broken and all should enter in with a humble spirit seeking forgiveness. "All have sinned and fallen short" (Romans 3:23)
True, the faithful are commended for faithfulness under fire, however, I think in the book of Acts, there is a pretty significant mention of a church's astonishing growth "and about 3000 were added to their number that day" (Acts 2:41).
I also don't think pastor Bell was saying that evnagelism is uncool or unnecessary, but rather, how many of us go about it is unproductive. The fields are ripe for harvest, but we need to use the right tools for the job. I think this video series will encourage people to share their faith, not show them that it is uncool.
Tim, I share your concern and I wonder about it every day. Those of us who know God's saving grace are all in this walk together. I may not agree with some of the things Rob Bell is doing, but I also may not agree with some of the things that other churches are doing. A wise elder at Parkview once reminded a Sunday school class I was attending that whatever you hear from the church, test it against the word of the Lord. I have been trying to do that through this whole debate. (I guess my Calvinist roots are showning).
Jeff, I don't think people here are saying open air preaching is bad (at least I am not). Open air condemnation without the attempt to establish relationships may be ineffective, in my opinion.
Again, I thank you all for this interesting dialog. I pray that all of us seek God's wise council through prayer and meditation. May He alone lead us to the path of truth.
Humbly,
JKanz
Tim,
You are one crazy camper... :) Thanks for chipping in dude.
Here is my take... I am very sensitive to tone in critique. I hear what you are saying, but we all know that critique is very important. There is truth and there are lies and we all need critique from each other done in humble ways to let us see beyond our blind spots. I know some of my best adjustements in life have come when others have critiqued what I believe. We would all be Catholics today if it weren't for the critiques of Luther, Calvin and Knox. Theological critique has obviously been a very helpful throughout all of church history in shaping who we are today at Christians. I feel that this needs to be done with gentleness and humility (2 Tim 2:24-25) but it does need to happen. I pray that that verse has covered this blog, perhaps at times it has not, thus if you feel that I have crossed the line please critique me!
Z-
I understand all of that, however this is not being done to Bell. It is being done on this blog, and I may be wrong, but I am guessing he has not seen it. That being said, it is not helping him in any way. He is being torn down by other Christians. That is not okay.
What bothers me at times is the attitude I see displayed in the comments. It appears that some think they are very "mature" Christians and everyone that does not believe what they believe is not mature at all. That attitude has to be put in check.
discussions such as these are good for the body of Christ. they cause us to think about things differently. does bell really need to be aware of these conversations for it to be beneficial? i think not! Bell creates these videos for conversations such as these. these are good interactions. i don't think we are wrestling so much w/ Bell as w/ how God would have us live and respond. that's all that really matters...and should be at the root of why Bell even makes videos such as these. we shouldn't become divided among believers....but, united for one purpose. who cares how the Biblical message of Christ goes out as long as it does?
Tim -
i don't think he is being "torn down" by me. I greatly affirmed him in the post for his artistic creativity. I praise God for the excellence that he uses in his craft! Are there some who critique with unwise words or lack of humility? For sure. It annoys me too, and I'm sure I've been guilty of it in the past, but I think I do disagree that I have to go to Rob before I post it on this blog. Part of my reason for doing this blog is to get people to think about ministry issues. I think his video's serve to do that well.
Just because you promote a certain belief and believe that others are wrong does not make you arrogant. I think that arrogance is more defined by the tone, words and means you use to go about your critique.
Zach-
I agree. I don't think you torn down Pastor Bell, it was other the comments that I was talking about. I should have made that more clear. That is my bad.
I know you don't have to go to R. Bell before the post, but I would think you would agree, talking about people behind their back is not the way to go.
As far as the arrogance part I can only partially agree with you. I do agree tone says a lot, but content does at well.
Okay. Enough of this. Moving on. I love you man. Late.
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