There is an interesting conversation going on over at Letters From Kamp Krusty about ecclesiology. Brant's post is called "We Quit Going To Church A Year Ago". It's a provocative title, but not really accurate. They left their more traditional picture of what we all think of as church and starting a new church that is very different than what most of us think of when it comes to church.
These are important matters to think through. Check it out.
2 comments:
I have been following (and contributing to) the discussion over there. One thing I have noticed is that there seems to a spirit of "In this whole matter of ecclesiology, some people worship their Bibles, but we follow Jesus and the Holy Spirit." This is a false dichotomy. It's also an old error of theological liberalism. God reveals Jesus to us through the Bible, He gives us the Holy Spirit to help us understand the Bible, and He tells us at least some things in the Bible about how He wants us to both "do church" and "be the Church." It grieves me to see people leaving the church, supposedly in obedience to the Holy Spirit. It's not just a matter of leaving the "traditional" church for a different kind of church, because God has told us in the Bible that He wants authority and structure in His church. Brant's vision is lacking here (and I say not as a put-down, just from what I have read in his descriptions of his home gatherings).
Chris,
Good thoughts. I would encourage you to try and find out as much as you can about what Brant is doing before being sure about your judgments. Information and understanding before critique is all I am saying. I love it when people do this with me and I'm sure you would feel that same.
All that said, I think I lean toward what you are saying. Totally agreed on the false dichotomy. I'm sure he would say that he is not doing that though, but it may be the case.
When you say though that is grieves you to see people leaving the church... you might want to qualify that a bit.
We both would agree that we don't grieve when someone leaves a health and wealth church or maybe the Catholic church, etc. I honestly don't know what church Brant is leaving. It might be the most wack church ever imaginable. You touched on this in your comment over that. Has he ever been exposed to a church that is striving for healthy models of leadership, etc...
I keep asking him about the teaching structure and don't really get any set answers. I think the Bible does show a pretty firm structure for authoritation teaching and guarding of the gospel through appointed people. But he is right. You can't find a Biblical picture of a sermon once a week for 45 min that is exegetical and where everyone just sits and listens. Not that this is bad, but we can't make an idol out of something that is not a Biblical law. I think it's a great idea for sure and will continue to enjoy it in my life, but we both have to admit that it's not a law for our eccelisology. There are things like this all over the church! Does the Bible prescribe that I have to lead 5 worship songs and have prayer before the message. Of course not. We use our preferences and wisdom to try and flesh out "sing to another with Psalm, Hymns and Spiritual songs" etc. and other texts about singing.
Enough for now...
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