The title of this post is not inflammatory rhetoric. Read the article and then tell me what a better title would be. If you are a Christian (or not), please think hard about this one before you vote for Obama this year:
Let's be clear about what Obama did, once in 2003 and twice before that. He effectively voted for infanticide. He voted to allow doctors to deny medically appropriate treatment or, worse yet, actively kill a completely delivered living baby. Infanticide - I wonder if he'll add this to the list of changes in his next victory speech and if the crowd will roar: "Yes, we can".Read the whole article.
18 comments:
Z, I agree that this is very troubling. The more I read about this, I don't really know who I can vote for. I cannot in good conscience vote for McCain, because I don't believe in what he stands for, but I find this equally troubling. I guess I could not vote and complain about whoever is elected after it happens.
But he brings us Hope and Change!
How can we not support that!?!!?
Z - Thanks for taking a strong stand on this issue. The way the media and Oprah and our culture are goo-goo gaa-gaa with increasingly frequent Obasms is to be predicted, I guess.
But the number of self-proclaimed evangelical Christians who are following this guy is scary!
Does substance not matter anymore? As you wrote in an email to me: is there anything more important than 45 million babies being killed?
You've got influence, Z, keep using it. I'm no McCain fan, believe me, but Obama is bad, bad news.
Z,
I agree that you have influence and I look forward to your posts. I like the ones I agree with, but I particularly appreciate the ones I don't because it challenges me to think through issues. Although I have the gift of God's amazing grace, I admittedly still get it wrong a lot of times and it is through respected brothers and sisters in Christ that we can continually seek to grow deeper.
Why is it that christians feel that issues like abortion and gay marriage are the end-all-be-all issues to vote on? Are these the only moral issues that matter? No candidate is perfect, and if we think we can put all our hope in one, then we are definitely putting our eggs in the wrong basket!
By the way, I am a follower of Christ, and yes I do vote on moral issues, and I will most likely vote for Obama because of the host of other moral issues that Evangelical Christians ignore that he is addressing. What about the millions of children in poverty in our country? What about the millions that cannot get health care? Do you think God is satisfied with that? What about the fact that our country is clearly violating the command to love our neighbor by making more enemies than we can keep up with while killing innocent people at the same time? Let me be clear I do not support "infantcide" but man is it worth singling out that one issue to elect presidents that are doing nothing to address all the rest of these moral issues?
Cody,
You touch on the problem with our democratic system (I would rather have it though than North Korea). This will always be the downside. No perfect candidates, but do you really want to vote for a baby killer? Do you really want to say that 45 million babies since R v. W. Should not be a trump card issue?
Please give me an example of one child who "can't get" health care in the United States. Thanks!
(this is an effort to be kinder and gentler on this issue)
Cody: Let me be clear I do not support "infantcide" but man is it worth singling out that one issue to elect presidents that are doing nothing to address all the rest of these moral issues?
Yes, it is in fact worth singling out this one issue.
Among Christians, we can have a substantive debate over entitlements and foreign policy. I disagree with the liberal agenda on most of these issues, but we can certainly consider other viewpoints.
On the other hand, we're talking about the systematic extermination of babies. If one believes that life begins at conception, then Barack Obama is an open proponent of infantice. That issue trumps everything else.
To all,
Boy it is interesting how words over the internet can come off threatening, but I had no intentions to do so, so forgive me if they came across that way and insulted your view point.
The bigger issue I see here is how to appopriately apply our understanding of what the Bible has to say into the public sphere of politics. I think it is important to realize that although we are reading the same bible we can often times come up with very different interpretations of what it means today. I'm wiling to accept that others conclusions may be different than mine.
What I'm tired of seeing is the Church marginalizing people that are considered "liberal", because of there stand on certain political issues, and that they are somehow not "genuinely" christian. I can count many people that left the church because of this very issue.
In terms of being pro-life (which i am), why stop with abortion? Why not the death penalty? Or all wars? Where does one draw the line? I would consider myself as radically pro-life as that, and yes, i believe it is horrible reality that so many babies die every year. But the way I approach politics (which i cannot separate my faith from) is going to be different, in what else i consider to be important. I respect your convictions that this is a big issue for you, but there is more out there for me that I care about. This is not a judgement on your beliefs rather a distinction of my own beliefs. Does that make sense?
Zach, That is why I don't see Obama as a baby killer, because abortion is not the #1 issue for me. Using this type of logic, one who views war as being against a pro-life view, could label Bush as an Iraqi child killer. I do not know if this type of rhetoric is particularly helpful.
I missed in all of that the response to my question regarding these millions of children across the country who "can't get healthcare".
Zach, That is why I don't see Obama as a baby killer, because abortion is not the #1 issue for me.
- No, you don't see him as that because you really, really want to vote for him.
The Sife,
Yes I do want to vote for Obama for a number of reasons, but I wouldn't view Hillary Clinton, who I would not vote for different reasons, (or anyone else supporting abortion) as being a baby killer. I respect others views on that, but that is just not the way I see it.
Cody
In terms of your comment which I apologize for not addressing:
"What about the millions of children in poverty in our country? What about the millions that cannot get health care?"
There are nearly 50 million that are uninsured in our country (I was one of them till about a year ago), many of which (sorry I'm not a stat nerd) are children. If you want to get particular about it I suppose I should have said "there are millions of people (i wasn't referring solely to children) that cannot afford to pay for, or don't have the means of paying for their own health insurance." There is a problem of affordability which can also affect access. And apparently there are some people that choose not to get insurance (although I do not believe this is the majority).
Anyway that wasn't the main point of my post, and I'm not an expert on health care . If you have issues with what I said, then unfortunately I probably won't have much to say about it. Hope this clears up any of my inarticulate blogging:)
I just wanted to take this time to excuse myself from this post completely. I confess that I've struggled with contempt for others that have responded to my post. My response itself was not in Christian love nor in the spirit of a healthy discussion. I hope you can forgive me for the judgement that I held in my heart for you today.
Blessings
Cody
I just wanted to take this time to excuse myself from this post completely. I confess that I've struggled with contempt for others that have responded to my post. My response itself was not in Christian love nor in the spirit of a healthy discussion. I hope you can forgive me for the judgement that I held in my heart for you today.
Cody
Cody,
Thanks for your words here. Disagreement is welcome here, but I just want to see us all treat each other with the respect that we all would like to be treated with.
I wasn't particularly offended by anything you said, just so you know if you care. Thanks for confession. Shows maturity. We need more of that around blogs...
zach
Many of those people who are uninsured can, in fact, afford it; they simply choose not to purchase it. They place other things higher on the priority list.
Regardless, your answer to people not having health insurance is to make the rest of us pay for it. I'm sorry you didn't have health insurance, but demanding that someone else provide it for you is baffling.
Cody,
Your post sounds remarkably like mine a few days ago. I agree that republicans miss the mark on most issues. For me, if dems would just flip on the abortion issue, they would have it right most of the time. But, voting for termination of children *after* they are born is a huge one.
Here is a great link that I think captures some of these issues though:
http://www.drurywriting.com/keith/democ.htm
By the way, you might check out this story from the Chicago Tribune that points out the reality of Obama's personal commitment to "the poor" vs. his rhetoric.
Of course, most Obama supporters won't care, because they've decided, and anything that interfered with the political messiah they've created simply will be ignored.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0704250022apr25,1,3690658.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed
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