At your church, do you have a formal ministry that helps people who want to fight to defeat this sin in their lives? If so, what form does it take and how has it been going?Please let me know.
Wednesday, April 22, 2009
P*RN Problems
In a recent discussion with some other church leaders, the issue of p*rn came up and how pervasive it is even among church goers. We live in a society that worships fleshly idols so the fact that people who love Jesus struggle with these sins is not surprising at all. In light of this, what I would like to hear from some of you is this:
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9 comments:
Given that we are members of the same church, you already know the answers to these questions at DSC-- and I don't mean that in a bad way, as I'm not sure that we *should* have a formal ministry to deal with porn problems.
If we were to have one, it would stand to reason, to me, that we should also have a formal "anti-pride ministry" or "anti-greed ministry." As you indirectly mentioned, indulgence in porn is idolatry, and it does wreck lives and marriages, but should it really have its own formal ministry in the church to combat it? I'm not sure.
The problem is sin, and the answer is a well-developed understanding of God's holiness, His absolute claim on our lives, His grace, and the reality of all people as His image-bearers-- many of whom are sadly, at present, on their way to Hell.
Few things can defeat a lustful temptation like meditating on the fact of Jesus's suffering on the cross for His people, *and* meditating on the fact that many (perhaps most?) of the people who make porn are likely currently on their way to Hell (not having repented and trusted in Christ). Instead of lusting after these lost souls, Christians must be *praying* for them.
Zack,
I'll leave this one anonymously, since I'm confessing on behalf of my wife:
She and I both have gone through significant struggles with pornography over the past several years. By God's grace it was more of a past problem for me going into our marriage, but not for her. It was a monster enemy to the joy of our first year of marriage, and to this day we wrestle this together, but alone.
I have a feeling that our pastor is oblivious to the depth of this issue in our culture, and even among the church. I believe this is something has got to become a common topic of conversation in a church.
In response to Christopher: In a way I totally agree with you, but in a way I think it's obvious that pornography is a little different than most sins. I think most people would much more readily confess something like pride or greed than sexual sin. It's stigmatized. And I believe that Satan uses it to keep people more tightly bound than most sins because of the immense guilt and shame that usually accompany it.
Think about it: you feel convicted of pride and confess it and repent, and you move on for the most part. But you spend 10 or 20 minutes looking at pornography, and even after you repent, it's hard to move on. The guilt of that is crushing. You see those images everywhere. It's a tool Satan uses to discourage any motivation for spiritual growth.
I would love to see all church bring this ugly dragon into the light and cut it's head off...
In a sense I think I agree with both of you sort of. I don't want to dismiss the unique nature of the sin of porn, but at the same time the remedy is the same as all other sins. The Gospel. Mark Driscoll has a great chapter on this in chapter 2 of Death By Love. We should all check it out.
z
Zach, our church does not have a formal ministry for those who struggle with porn but I would love to see this in place. I am convinced that the church as a whole is thoroughly unaware of how many within the church struggle with various forms of sexual sins. I agree with Christopher that the problem is sin and the solution is the Gospel (hallelujah!!!)...BUT. If people don't know where they can go for help, most people continue to struggle silently. Sexual sin is different in the sense that (like Anonymous mentions) it ensnares and deceives in ways that other sins sometimes don't. This brings shame as well as a false sense of security in thinking that you can deal with these issues on your own...
As an individual, I have been very affected by many different sexual sins and am jealous to see people living in the freedom from these sins that Christ died to set us free from...if a formal ministry inside a church will help people to do that...why not??
Anonymous, can I encourage you to speak with your pastor? Unsheath your sword and slay this dragon that would love nothing more than to rip your marriage apart and malign the Gospel...If you guys feel you cannot speak with him, check out freedombeginshere-dot-org for some resources. I am praying specifically for you today as the Lord has laid you and your wife on my heart!
Zach,
We don't have anything formal at our church, but I know several people who have found some good help at Setting Captives Free. They have free online Bible studies (10 - 12 week courses) and mentor support that deal with several addictive behaviors--sexual purity, food issues, substance abuse, gambling, etc. They seem to be pretty theologically sound from what I can tell, though I certainly haven't done all the courses. This link is their home page: http://www.settingcaptivesfree.com/home/
While I know it's been helpful in some cases, I do have some issues about this in that it's dealing with sin secretly and anonymously and confessing our sins to one another is a big part of breaking the power of sin in our lives. On the other hand, finding someone "safe" to confess to can be a challenge. So is "secret" help and support better than no help at all? I don't know. But in any case, this is a resource that could be helpful.
Oh yeah...Covenant Eyes is a must for all computers! God has given us a gift in this safeguard! :o)
CovenantEyes-dot-com
wow, good for you buddy for starting a thread like this but realize most people speak out of pure ignorance and isolation when even discussing pornography. Not to mention be VERY careful of what you're labeling pornography. Sitting for hours on end watching football on sunday afternoons and not being present for one's family is just as pornographic! Don't get it twisted, man is the one who was created to name and we all must be cautious of the trap of naming some things pornographic and others not.
I agree Mark Driscoll has a good world view about this topic but sometimes neglects the role of the body and community of kindness which leads to repentance.
You want to read and learn about a great growing culture and community that is actively changing men's lives with regards to this issue, then check out Nate Larkin's book Samson and the Pirate Monks. Then follow that and attend a Samson Society meeting.
If a church really wants to tackle this "dragon" then they should conversely truly invest in pulling its congregation out of isolation.
To the people who have posted in response to my comment,
I completely agree that the reality of this sin needs to be brought into the light and be discussed more openly in local churches. I also agree that there are unique aspects to a Christian's struggle with porn.
However, do we really want to treat this sin as *so* unique that we have a formal ministry for it in local churches-- a formal ministry that we do not necessarily have for *any* other sin?
In many churches, the issue of porn could tackled more openly from the pulpit as an issue of sinful idolatry (not as a "disease" from which one needs "recovery," as "Christian psychology" would have it). Porn could be directly dealt with and discussed in classes in the church. Men's and women's groups in the church could be courageous in taking on this topic and agreeing to accountability.
The Samson Societies sound very helpful, but they exist largely because the local church (broadly speaking) often fails at this level. That should not be the case, and if our churches are really committed to Biblical healthiness, it will not continue to be the case. I pray for growth for all of us in better dealing with this issue at the local level!
Christopher,
I may have misunderstood what is meant by "formal" ministry. Your description in the paragraph below is similar to what I would envision and pray for.
"In many churches, the issue of porn could tackled more openly from the pulpit as an issue of sinful idolatry (not as a "disease" from which one needs "recovery," as "Christian psychology" would have it). Porn could be directly dealt with and discussed in classes in the church. Men's and women's groups in the church could be courageous in taking on this topic and agreeing to accountability."
How would you propose to begin to do this in a church that does not currently operate so openly re this struggle in this sin?
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