Saturday, September 12, 2009

Does This Apply To Martyrs?

Joel Osteen quoted from his forthcoming book, "It's Your Time":
Get your hopes up. Raise your expectations. Expect the unexpected. In challenging times, it may be hard to see better days ahead.

You may feel as though your struggles will never end, that things won’t ever turn around.

This is exactly the moment when you should seek and expect God’s blessings.

It’s your time to declare your faith, to look for God’s favor and to give control of your life to Him so that you can find fulfillment in His plans for you!

The White Horse Inn Blog
:
One of our stalwart staffers actually read through the little teaser that’s posted online and wondered how some of the following pick-me-ups would sound to believers in Africa, right before they are martyred for their faith.

More from Joel's book:

God wants to breathe new life into your dreams. He wants to breathe new hope into your heart. You may be about to give up on a marriage, on a troubled child, on a lifelong goal. But God wants you to hold on. He says if you’ll get your second wind, if you’ll put on a new attitude and press forward like you’ll headed down the final stretch, you’ll see Him begin to do amazing things.

Tune out the negative messages. Quit telling yourself: I’m never landing back on my feet financially. I’m never breaking this addiction. I’m never landing a better job.

Instead, your declarations should be: I am closer than I think. I can raise this child. I can overcome this sickness. I can make this business work. I know I can find a new job.

Take your dreams and the promises God has put in your heart, and every day declare that they will come to pass. Just say something like, “Father, I want to thank you that my payday is coming. You said no good thing will You withhold because I walk uprightly. And I believe even right now you’re arranging things in my favor.”

When you’re tempted to get down and things are not going your way, you need to keep telling yourself “This may be hard. It may be taking a long time. But I know God is a faithful God. And I will believe knowing that my payday is on its way.”

Whenever life grows difficult, and the pressure is turned up, that’s a sign that your time is near. When lies bombard your mind. When you are most tempted to get discouraged. And when you feel like throwing in the towel. That’s not the time to give up. That’s not the time to back down. That’s the time to dig in your heels. Put on a new attitude. You are closer than you think.

God promises your payday is on its way. If you’ll learn to be a prisoner of hope and get up every day expecting God’s favor, you’ll see God do amazing things. You’ll overcome every obstacle. You’ll defeat every enemy. And I believe and declare you’ll see every dream, every promise God has put in your heart. It will come to pass.


When all your hope is in prosperity in this life, real Christianity is pretty hard to live out. I guess all the martyrs of Christian history were not prosperous. It must not have been "their time".

Joel, if you want to preach your prosperity gospel, that's fine, but just don't call yourself a pastor of a church. Don't sing songs about Jesus. It's just too confusing. What you preach is not Christianity. It's motivational, positive sounding legalism. "Just follow these rules and you'll be set" is essentially your message. This is not the gospel. As Michael Horton says, this is "law light". Sounds good and very nice, but is just as damning. It's damnation with a smile.

11 comments:

Anonymous said...

The most telling excerpt from the White Horse Inn blog is when they mention how the 14 page teaser for Osteen's book has no mention of Jesus.
-Lew

L.R.E. Larkin said...

one could also call it "candy coated condemnation"

thanks for posting this...it makes me sick oh how many people get hurt with this prosperity gospel.

Joanna said...

Joel Osteens first book was one of the few christian books i've been unable to finish due to frustration with the content- and i've read and managed to finish some that have been pretty bad.

How widely his teaching is embraced is a very sad reflection of how well many western Christians know their bibles and the realities of the world beyond their country's borders.

John C said...

I no more agree with Osteen than anyone else here - can't stand the guy and all the prosperity BS. But - I'm also not sure we should raise up martyrs in africa "dying for their faith" as the pinnacle of the Gospel/Christian life and what God truly wants for us all either. If we think that, we're just walking to the opposite extreme. While perhaps we're not implying that here, we need to be very careful with how this comparison is approached.

Joanna said...

John C, I'm not so sure that the example was make to represent the pinnacle of the Christian life. I understood it to be showing the situation where such doctrines fail the worst.

Seth Ward said...

So where can I get the book on how to be a Martyr, because the Gospel is truly about the hope of being a Martyr, isn't it? Is that what I should seek.. to sacrifice my self? Or is Martyrdom an incredible crown given to a select few who could possibly handle it? Isn't obedience and repentance what the Lord requires? Sacrifice is secondary. Unless you are a fundamentalist Muslim.

I suppose if Joel is TOTALLY wrong and out of line then we should turn each phrase to the negative and see if that's the God we serve too... Here goes.

"God wants to breathe death into your dreams. He wants to breathe new despair into your heart. You may be about to give up on a marriage, on a troubled child, on a lifelong goal. But God wants you to give up. He says if you’ll get your second wind, if you’ll put on a new attitude and press forward like you’ll headed down the final stretch, you’ll see Satan and fail totally.

Tune out the positive messages. Start telling yourself: I’m never landing back on my feet financially. I’m never breaking this addiction. I’m never landing a better job.

Take your dreams and the promises God has put in your heart, and every day declare that they will never never come to pass. Just say something like, “Father, I want to thank you that my failure is coming. You said no good thing will You withhold because I walk uprightly. And I DON'T believe even right now you’re arranging things in my favor. I believe you arranging for my failure."

... But I know God is an unfaithful God. And I will believe knowing that my failure is on its way.”

Whenever life grows difficult, and the pressure is turned up, that’s a sign that your time to die is near. When lies bombard your mind. When you are most tempted to get discouraged. And when you feel like throwing in the towel. That’s the time to give up. That’s the time to back down. That’s the time to dig in your heels. Put on a new attitude. You are further than you think.

God promises your death is on its way. If you’ll learn to be a prisoner of despair and get up every day expecting a horrible death by the mouth of hungry lions, you’ll see God make that happen... And I believe and declare you’ll see every dream, every promise God has put in your heart die. It will never come to pass."

The thing is, guys... I've got close close friends who are missionaries who have lost their spouses and who have almost lost their lives and had to watch as their spouses were murdered in front of their eyes. If they were to encourage anyone, what they would say would be closer to what Joel is preaching here than they are to the fatalistic HS coming out of so many pulpits today. I know. I've heard it. They do not wallow around in self-pity with a martyr complex and concede that being a Christian means total despair without hope.

I think that repentance is "changing the way you think" and Joel preaches the practical application of this, whether you agree with his ideology or not. Joel is definitely light on his theology. He admits it. I wish it were different. Maybe he's way too light to have the audience he's had. But for some reason, more people listen to him than they do Piper. But his church has done a lot of good in Houston and not a soul walks into that building and isn't moved by the Holy spirit. I've met several former drug addicts who went to Lakewood whose lives were transformed by the healing power of Jesus introduced to them through Lakewood, and yes, Joel Osteen.

Honestly, I am really tired of people smashing on Joel. I imagine that I could go to a number of churches and be just as nasty about a great many pastors... Let's get off the high horse here, shall we? Of course, I've been known to sit on that horse quite a bit so that goes for me too when it comes to my allergy to hyper calvinism.


End rant.

Vitamin Z said...

Seth,

Thanks for the thoughtful comment. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I wish I had more time to interact with your comments, but right now I can't. One thing I will say though is that "light on his theology" is just another way of saying, "no Biblical gospel". No sin, no Jesus bloody sacrifice = no Gospel. No Gospel = no real church and no real pastor.

I think it really is as simple as that.

z

Seth Ward said...

Awe come one! ARGUE!!!!

No, I hear you...

I suppose it boils down to this for me: Just listening to Joel and judging his church and message from what you see on the tube doesn't work for me. I see what Joel is saying as, "quit sinning" or "quit with the sinful mindset." In other words, "Repent." He just does it in an encouraging way and tells people how to do it. I've gone to that church and the there is no doubt who is Lord and Savior.

I don't have a problem with it and I don't see much difference between what he says and what Warren says. I have a good friend up here in the city that was in the throws of HORRIBLE depression before she was lifted up by an Osteen book. She started the recovery ministry at Redeemer up here. She's an amazing woman the what God has done through that is simply awesome.

Again... I'm egging you on. Peace brother!

Apologies if that last comment sounded snarky-

Christopher Lake said...

Seth,

A huge part of the problem with Joel's preaching that it has very little difference from a motivational seminar by a non-Christian speaker. The Gospel is not, "Jesus died on the cross so that we can achieve whatever our dreams happen to be."

The fact is, for unconverted people, and even for us as Christians, many times, our dreams can be self-centered and sinful. (I'm not talking about dreams to spread the Gospel, or to provide for one's family, etc., etc.) Joel simply doesn't *clarify* very important issues in his messages. I have never heard him preach about Hell. Never. He rarely uses the "sin" word, other than to ask people, at the end of his shows, to "pray to have their sins forgiven." However, what good does that do when he never even *explains* what sin is-- rebellion against a holy God?

I am honestly floored to read that your missionary friends would speak of their losses in a way that is similar to Joel Osteen's "positive thinking" messages. Is that really true? Joel is not telling people, "God is with you, loving you and transforming you in the midst of your trials. God may or may not deliver you from them in this life, but He is with you." That would be a *Biblical* message, and I have never heard Joel preach anything like that.

What I have heard from Joel is more like, "Don't think negatively. You can do anything that you set your mind to do!" However, what if what we set our minds to do does not glorify God? Either way, this life is not primarily about us and our dreams. It is about God and Him being glorified through us, whatever comes to pass-- and I just don't hear that from Joel. To say so is not "hyper-Calvinism" in the least.

Seth Ward said...

Christopher

About the missionaries... I will say this: Believe it. And I wouldn't come close to judging them for it or how they've dealt with their grief and the problem of pain. i've also experiences quite a bit of pain in my life and I'd prefer Joel's sermons over sermons that remind me of how crappy I am (I'm already aware) and speak in uber ambiguous hyper spiritual terms. However, you've set up a false dichotomy. I think Joel is saying just that first one plus the other one and we'll disagree there.

About dreams, I think Joel preaches this: Seek first the Kingdom of God and God gives you the "desires" of your heart. Meaning, he actually gives you the "right" desires, the "right" dreams, then you are free to follow them or strive for them.

Sometimes they happen and sometimes they don't but God uses both scenarios.

I think maybe you and I disagree fundamentally about dreams. I believe that God has created us and though we are flawed and broken we aren't garbage and neither are our dreams, though they may change with time. Knowing the Lord begins to renew and heal us all the way to our dreams. And God gives us different dreams and aspirations at different times in our lives. I believe that. I believe that walking in obedience glorifies God and obedience is greater than sacrifice. I believe that your dreams are not sinful, they can cause you to "be" sinful: Jealous, worry, spiteful, bitter... But they can also lead you to amazing places where God uses you for his Glory and your good. Sometimes sinful? I suppose if your dream is to be a Pimp... or a drug dealer... To be film actor? Not necessarily sinful. To bask in the glory of praise as a movie star? Sinful. Honestly, I think there are loads of Pastors out there who treat their staff like CRAP who are 3x as sinful as some Dancers... or actors... Movie stars or bartenders.

Honestly, I think you can be providing for your family and that can become an Idol of fear and keep you from obedience, and it can lead you to the illusion that you are in control of money rather than believing that it is God who provides for your family, no matter what He asks you to do. For instance, one man might stay in his Church job for 30 years and never step out in faith to accomplish that "dream" God had planted. I've met many a middle aged church man with this on their conscience.

Joel is an encouraging guy, I agree with him about a lot of stuff and I disagree with PLENTY. I think he's over-the-top scrutinized because he is so popular and doesn't preach Hell and judge more and doesn't preach more like Piper. I cringe when I hear the Haughty pastors and Christian talk show guys slam him. Not Christian. If anybody wants to criticize Joel's "prosperity lite" Gospel, let them turn to Second Baptist's website and check out the new bazillion dollar sanctuary that will give facility to all the richest people in Houston and give that equal attention. Ye without church chandelier or $120,000 steinway piano cast the first marble bathroom counter top.

I'm not going to Judge Joel because he doesn't preach about Hell. Because its a proven fact that telling someone they are going to Hell shows the Love of God more than anything...

Christina said...

As someone who is going through a rather difficult time with my father-in-law (he's got terminal dementia) I only get upset at this kind of advice.

I know my father-in-law won't get better, but according to Joel he will if I speak it into existence. I have no doubt that God could cure my father-in-law if that was in His plan, but as a logical individual I have come to not expect that. I'm not angry at God because this has come to pass on him, things like this happen to good people everyday. Yet my devotion to God is not based on his promise of performing miracles in the lives of my loved ones.

This "if you do X God will solve your problem" is completely unbiblical. I just wonder how this stuff is created. Yes, it is warm and fuzzy because that is what we want to hear. We'd love God to be our own personal genie, but He's not. And to expect Him to be would be to deny him the praise and glory that He deserves.

I agree that Joel should be calling himself as self-help guru (which would be an appropriate term) rather than a pastor. I don't believe there's anything wrong with his "hope for the best" idea but tying it in with the gospel and promising that God will solve it all is really wrong.