I've often heard it say in support of wearing the suit and tie to church, "If you were going to have dinner with the president of the United States you would certainly dress up. Why? Because we want to show respect and reverence for his position and him as a person. How much more should we show the same reverence and respect for our God?"
What do you think? Does this analogy stand up?
Talk to me...
16 comments:
I think it does...I like dressing up for church. It tends to set it apart from the rest of the week!
Excited to hear that you and the fam are coming to chill with us in the 505!
Well, I have been in a variety of churches with a variety of unspoken dress codes. Here are my thoughts:
1) Yes, if I were visiting the president I would likely dress up (though perhaps I shouldn't). How much more then should we dress up for our Lord?
2) In churches I have been in, dress becomes a fashion contest, not a way to honor God. Everyone has to have more and better clothing, spending money that could be better spent elsewhere.
3) The dress in a church is, at times, a barrier toward evangelism. When people come into a church building, they see people dressing up and maybe cannot afford to dress or worse, may see it as hypocrisy. These dressed up, false front people may be the same ones they see cheating on their taxes or their spouses. I think what seekers want to see is normal people admitting they are sinners coming "as they are."
4) In farming communities, in particular, people are uncomfortable when dressed up. When a man is continually adjusting his tie because it uncomfortable or because he feels self-conscious, he is not focused on the message. I would rather see him absorbing the word in comfortable dress.
For me, I would rather dress comfortably and come "as I am" to worship.
some of the more intimate times i have had meeting w/ God have been when i'm dirty, smelly, sweaty, bed-headed...etc. You get the point. I think that's a nice thought...but, i often think most people dress up to impress others and not for the whole respecting God thing. God looks at the heart so that's what matters the most....as long as you have a clear conscience for the reasons you do what you do. (ex...not wearing something to attract attention to yourself).
I think tan dockers, a light blue button shirt, and penny loafers should be the required uniform for all worship leaders.
i think we've addressed this before, but it's worth repeating. "Dressing up" for church creates a wall that prevents the broken from experiencing the love of Jesus.
To answer your question directly; no, the analagy holds no weight at all. If Jesus sees my clothes and thinks less of my reverent fear or worship then i'll need a new God. Jesus, the greatest act of worship and sacrifice ever, breathed out his last and was completely consumed as a sacrifice for sins, and guess what...there's a good chance he was butt naked, or wearing a diaper-like cloth at best.
If we start comparing our interaction with the president to our interaction with God then we have bigger problems than just what we're wearing.
my question is: if we should dress up to meet with God in church, what about all the times that we meet with God other times? what about when i shoot up a prayer on my way to work or when i first wake up in the morning or when i am going for a run? what about that? what about the fact that most of us will never meet with the president of the united states but our great God has given us the gift of His Son so that we can meet with Him whenever or where ever? and He wants us to?
Biscuet,
well said. Unfortunately, under our current regime, I think we all to often put our president on the same level as our God. Sad, but true.
God Bless America!
Last week I went home to east Tennessee to do some backpacking. While I was there I went to church with my parents, which is the church I grew up in, but I had not packed clothes for church because I had planned on staying in the mountains through Sunday.
Even though I knew a lot of the people there and was sitting with my parents, I felt terribly under-dressed in my jeans and polo and was, quite frankly, uncomfortable. This was the church I grew up in and I felt uncomfortable wearing nice jeans and a clean collared shirt.
I realize churches are different but I can't imagine how someone who is visiting a church where they don't know anyone and where people dress up must feel unwelcome if they aren't dressed up. Some churches, like my parent's, have billboards and commercials and do things to recruit others but how many people have come into a church dressed as they are comfortable and not felt welcome because of it? I can understand how someone who wants to be a part of such a body and has "Sunday dress" would be fine but what about those who aren't or the poor or the homeless?
Dressing up for the Lord is honorable but we should never be judgmental of those who haven't. Church is not a country club where dress codes are required, be it openly or subleminally.
I find it interesting that pride is so often associated with wearing a suit and tie...from what I can tell, a person can be just as prideful wearing the "cool broken" uni of shorts, tee and flip-flops. Inasmuch as the argument that seekers might find dress clothes to be a barrier, if the nicely dressed person conveys warmth and love and sincerity to the newcomer, then I hardly think that the persons clothes are going to be problematic, but it may convey to the seeker that there is a reverence for how we come to worship. I know, that begs the question, often posed by youth pastors, that if a person's heart is right before GOd then who cares what he wears? I say, sure, but in that I care about my own standing before God I choose to dress as nicely as I can. I'm not sure what it conveys to others, and maybe wrongly I could care less what it conveys. I am a broken depraved man, but in that God has granted me grace I feel it somehow disrespectful to Him to wear shorts and a ball-cap in church. He probably could care less one way or the other (I would hate to presume) but I don't see how, all things being equal, we wouldn't want to dress up nicely for our Savior.
Monsieur Le Biscuet:
What do you mean by "Dressing up" for church creates a wall that prevents the broken from experiencing the love of Jesus.
I'd appreciate your elucidation this...
Also, I've got to ask, are you an "Auburn Man?" How are the Tigers going to be this year?
Thanks!
as far as i know, the only scripture that really deals with this tells people NOT to wear things that are distracting because the clothes are TOO fancy. as far as I know, there's nothing that tells us to LOOK nice when we worship, right? how muchh of dressing up for church is just tradition and can be a distraction. "Dressing up for God" doesn't set that time apart for God any more than bringing a BIG Bible to church makes you a better Christian. There's not really any basis for dressing up for church. what's going on with your heart? isn't that what matters? (of course you all know that already, but I had to ask it.)
Matthew 23 is speaking about the Pharisees in their fancy garb in spite of their bitter hearts.
What does that have to do with how we dress? There is an element of the absurd here...we have the opportunity to dress marginally nice for worship, and it seems this can be done not out of conceit but out of reverence (just as we say, out of reverence, I am going to wear something rather than nothing). Again, all things being equal, don't we do our best? Not as a means of gaining God's favor but as a reflection of our hearts. This is a personal conviction, but I have a hard time understanding how we can wake up on a morning of corporate worship and not, with a heart of reverence, say "God I am going to give you my best today" (again not out of a desire for attaining salvation). Maybe it is a traditional notion of pleasing God by how I look (I am guilty, I DO want to impress God, futile as my efforts may be. I am glad so many do not feel this need to impress God. Your maturity impresses me greatly).
Insofar as the homeless and poverty-stricken are somehow amazingly being hindered and embarrassed by the fine garments of their contemporaries at church, a point of experience: if you have been to the most poverty-stricken church in the USA you will find people wearing their Sunday best...so much more so than the "dress-down" set at the local million dollar tabernacle who dress grubbily out of great sensitivity to their brothers of little means. We could learn a lesson from how the destitute dress in church. They show, in some cases at least I presume, that their hearts are of such a spirit as to say "God I've got little to give but what I do have to give I give you my best." (See Mark 12).
*by the way, in all of this I'm not saying we wear Armani gear...but is it too much to ask to throw on a clean shirt, pressed pants, and to comb your hair? If congregants are outraged that you are wearing jeans, how exactly is that your problem? If a church denies membership (or love, for that matter) for failing to dress by code then the church has myriad issues beyond this paltry little one for which I have now spent 15 minutes of my life discussing. I am not suggesting designer wear. And another by the way, this idea that I might hurt the feelings of some poor sap who doesn't have my high quality cotton vestiments...um, there are people who have less money than others. Sad, but unfortunately true. This can be hidden for only so long. When said poor sap finds out that I live in a fine home and eat well every day my gig is up. None of this affects the fact that we are both in dire need of a Savior.
Back to bidnis:
It is agreed among the orthodox that we are sinners saved exclusively by grace. That we bring nothing to the table except our brokenness. That humanity, whether rich or poor, is depraved (on this, I reckon, we can agree). But it reeks of the absurd to take the position that we wouldn't want to give our best to God, out of reverence alone. If that is indeed the case I am going to be wearing my "Super Beerathon Spring Break 2004" tee shirt to the next worship service. As long as my heart is right, indeed. I will show all of them!
God created us naked and it was not until our shame of eating the fruit that we needed to dress in front of the lord. So does clothes matter to God, I will let Matthew chapter 6 do all the talking
Matthew 6
28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
as far as what Scripture says about dressing at all, my point is that really the only thing it says is to NOT dress so you are a distraction, or (I would assume) so that you are distracted by your OWN desire to look good or worrying about what others are thinking about you. To get right down to it, how does dressing up at all "Give your best for God?" We both know that there is NOTHING that we can wear that will impress Him, so why perpetuate that thought and continue to think we need to dress up for worship? If there is a need to dress up, isn't it more for YOUR sake than God's then?
And being a distraction can go both ways.....if we wear something that says "Super Beerathon 2004" just to prove a point, aren't we going against the point we are trying to make? We are to NOT be a distraction.
How is what we wear to worship a window to our soul at all?
Hi Nate, just a coupla thoughts...
the original question, and what I assumed this discourse was directed around, was the importance or unimportance of dressing nicely for church. What I have read throughout this thread is that there is a distraction or there is this selfish motive to stand out by dressing nicely. My original contention still stands: all things being equal with the heart, I believe it is reverent to dress nicely
You mention, Nate, "To get right down to it, how does dressing up at all 'Give your best for God?' We both know that there is NOTHING that we can wear that will impress Him, so why perpetuate that thought and continue to think we need to dress up for worship?"
Well, why not dress nicely? We are going to wear something, presumably, so why not our best? I am treating this day as important, set-apart, and what I wear reflects that, I guess.
You mention: "If there is a need to dress up, isn't it more for YOUR sake than God's then?"
Of course it is for my sake! it is my belief that I dress accordingly out of reverence. A personal conviction that reflects a respect for God. God doesn't care. However, I care about where my heart is at before God, and unfortunately I do believe that what we wear can be (not always, but can be) a reflection of our souls. This reverence for God certainly comes from inside, and unfortunately a place that no clothes can hide. However, my personal believes in my head (just as with anything else) are oftentimes reflected in what is on the outside.
And being a distraction can go both ways.....if we wear something that says "Super Beerathon 2004" just to prove a point, aren't we going against the point we are trying to make? We are to NOT be a distraction.
that is exactly my point...if memory serves, what I was trying to say is we are all "dressing up" in our own smugness. I've got it all figured out and defy those brothers in their suits and ties, so I am going to wear my tee and shorts. Or, I am spiritually mature, so I'll wear my tie and starched shirt. Make no mistake, there is always a uniform: it just depends on whether it is a suit and tie or a pair of shorts and tee. That is why I keep coming back to "all things being equal."
You also mention "How is what we wear to worship a window to our soul at all?"
If you don't believe that what we wear is, in part, a window to our soul, then there probably isn't a whole lot I can do to explain to you otherwise. It seems obvious to me that if someone wears a "Pro-Choice" tee shirt they are probably not advocates for the unborn. If I wear a tee shirt that lauds the merits of the band "Slayer" I probably do not convey a respectibility for decency. I'm simply stating that what we wear can be a reflection of our soul. Of course, looks can certainly be deceiving. I don't know for sure what he wore for worship services, but Francis Schaeffer wore leiderhosen for crying out loud.
Here's the one thing that you simply cannot defy, dear Nate: for the most part, I am writing and reading what I've written just for the sake of hearing myself talk (or seeing myself write, or whatever). That is why I so vehemently despise these blogs: my own selfish pride in writing the last word or being right. Ultimately, I simply skim over what everyone else wrote and then puke what I have to say on the page without really giving it a great deal of thought. All of which to say: By this time, I am utterly sick of "what to wear to church." Now I am going to nearly soil myself on Sunday morning worrying about my motives. Thanks for whoever shared Jesus' words (Matthew 6?). That, at least, will keep my head on straight.
Everybody had good stuff here. I learned a great deal from it.
tdelse,
thanks for your frankness and honesty. sounds like it'd be fun to get together some time and discuss the finer things in life. Maybe I'll see you at church sometime. I'll be the guy with jeans, flip-flops, and a nice shirt. (not tucked in, of course.)
thanks for the chatting.
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