I read the article and have heard him say similar things before.
It might be true that it is good for single men to take care of young children, but I don't know that it would be good for the children.
I don't know if most child molesters are men or if that is just my perception, but pedophiles do seek out situations in which they will have access to children and being that it is unusual for normal males to put themselves in that position, I would be highly suspicious of a male childcare giver. I would not put my kids in that nursery.
I know I'm probably stereotyping and discriminating and overly fearful, but it's more important to me to protect my kids than to make sure some guy gets a date.
Sara, your comments are, at best, short-sighted. The fear of children being abused is legitimate, but let's not lose focus on what Pastor Mark is getting at. If you are afraid that there are men in your church that are sexual predators, you have a much more serious problem on your hands. His point is that we need to foster a culture in our churches where this kind of behavior is encouraged, not met with paranoia. Every nursery, regardless, should have high standards for who is allowed to provide child care. Do background checks, install cameras... The whole 9 yards. But don't discrimate against the men and boys in the church and then wonder why they don't like kids, have no idea how to communicate with them, and don't want to have families. Children are a blessing, not a nuisance, and DEFINITELY not "the womens problem." I want my sons to love kids and to love caring for them. Isn't the church a great place to teach them how that is to be done in a proper, godly, and biblical way? Interested in your thoughts...
I don't think my comments are short-sighted because the emotional scars left by sexual abuse do nothing to create healthy families or men who love children in the future.
The idea that boys can be taught to be loving fathers by babysitting in the nursery, when all of culture teaches them otherwise is wrong. Sons should be taught to love children by the people who love them most and are with them the most - where it can be done in a proper, godly and biblical way.
If we believe that children are the responsibility of both men and women, then where there is a father present, he can help to care for his own children during church and all the rest of the time. Of course, a father is not always present and that's a problem.
One solution is a totally different idea than the church nursery model. If a family is unable to concentrate or care for their children during church, the volunteers who would otherwise be in the nursery, could come alongside the family and sit with them and help them maintain order. This could be an organized "ministry" or it could simply be something that is encouraged for everyone to do because we are one Body. See a need and fill it, don't wait for someone to make a committee. (I'd still not let a man take my kids out of the sanctuary to go to the bathroom, though.)
It is dangerously naive to think that pedophiles can't be in a church. There are two reasons there may be sexual predators in the church: one is that they are repentant; the other is that sexual predators are sneaky - they can be anywhere and they often masquerade as people who love children. I'm sure you could google a list of recent examples if you don't believe me. The measures you suggest for keeping sexual predators out of the nursery are not economically feasible for many of the churches I've attended.
I don't think so, but it is possible that this is just a trust issue for me. What I really think is that my kids are a sacred trust and it would violate my conscience to put them in that situation.
I think there has been some kind of connection, for whatever reason, in your mind that "male childcare equals child abuse." I'm not sure why this is, but the prejudice you have against men caring for children is a little alarming.
When you say that "Sons should be taught to love children by the people who love them most and are with them the most - where it can be done in a proper, godly and biblical way", I immediately think of the church! Isn't this the place where all of this can/ought to be done well? I mean, if the older women are to instruct the younger women in the church, why can't the same principle apply to the men? And we trust women to teach our boys bible stories and theology, but not what being a good man looks like and what will be expected of him?
If we are going to get all over the men in our church to "be men" and raise the next generation of men in our churches, let's not handcuff them when it comes to their training. Being a man in the church isn't about watching John Wayne movies or using power tools. It's about loving one woman, raising a family, loving God, hating sin, standing up to the world, raging again the Devil, loving and living the gospel, etc.
As to the economic nature of child safety: I know you can buy a camera that links to an iphone for $129.99. Anyone with an iphone and the IP can access the feed. But let's be honest: this is less about money and more about accountability trust. If it was truly important, we can find the manpower and money to make it happen.
Set rules that are non-negotiable. No one is allowed to take children to the potty except for 2 or 3 people (vetted of course). No one except these people are allowed to do diapers. No one is allowed to leave the nursery area. Everyone works with a "buddy" and that buddy system is on a weekly rotation so you are always working with someone new. Let an older woman work with a younger boy. Let an older man work with a teenage girl. You would be surprised at the kind of amazing, godly relationships that can be fostered.
Sara, if this is a trust issue for you, remember the covenant community you are a part of, and the covenant obligation you have to one another. My wife and children are my highest priority (next to God, of course :). But next to that, it is my church. They are my family. I call them out on sin; they call me out on sin. We worship together. We pray together. We repent together. We grow together. We are, for better or worse, a family. I help with their kids; they help with mine. If they see my child sinning, I expect, even demand that they help me! It is their right as my brother/sister.
No, I take it back - I do have something to add. If children are a blessing and not a nuisance, then it is illogical that we should send them to a nursery.
Also, please don't read more into what I've written than what is actually there.
7 comments:
I read the article and have heard him say similar things before.
It might be true that it is good for single men to take care of young children, but I don't know that it would be good for the children.
I don't know if most child molesters are men or if that is just my perception, but pedophiles do seek out situations in which they will have access to children and being that it is unusual for normal males to put themselves in that position, I would be highly suspicious of a male childcare giver. I would not put my kids in that nursery.
I know I'm probably stereotyping and discriminating and overly fearful, but it's more important to me to protect my kids than to make sure some guy gets a date.
You could add one more reason....a single man would find out the interestingness of babies. how cute and messy they are all at the same time.
Sara, your comments are, at best, short-sighted. The fear of children being abused is legitimate, but let's not lose focus on what Pastor Mark is getting at. If you are afraid that there are men in your church that are sexual predators, you have a much more serious problem on your hands. His point is that we need to foster a culture in our churches where this kind of behavior is encouraged, not met with paranoia. Every nursery, regardless, should have high standards for who is allowed to provide child care. Do background checks, install cameras... The whole 9 yards. But don't discrimate against the men and boys in the church and then wonder why they don't like kids, have no idea how to communicate with them, and don't want to have families. Children are a blessing, not a nuisance, and DEFINITELY not "the womens problem." I want my sons to love kids and to love caring for them. Isn't the church a great place to teach them how that is to be done in a proper, godly, and biblical way? Interested in your thoughts...
Anonymous,
I don't think my comments are short-sighted because the emotional scars left by sexual abuse do nothing to create healthy families or men who love children in the future.
The idea that boys can be taught to be loving fathers by babysitting in the nursery, when all of culture teaches them otherwise is wrong. Sons should be taught to love children by the people who love them most and are with them the most - where it can be done in a proper, godly and biblical way.
If we believe that children are the responsibility of both men and women, then where there is a father present, he can help to care for his own children during church and all the rest of the time. Of course, a father is not always present and that's a problem.
One solution is a totally different idea than the church nursery model. If a family is unable to concentrate or care for their children during church, the volunteers who would otherwise be in the nursery, could come alongside the family and sit with them and help them maintain order. This could be an organized "ministry" or it could simply be something that is encouraged for everyone to do because we are one Body. See a need and fill it, don't wait for someone to make a committee. (I'd still not let a man take my kids out of the sanctuary to go to the bathroom, though.)
It is dangerously naive to think that pedophiles can't be in a church. There are two reasons there may be sexual predators in the church: one is that they are repentant; the other is that sexual predators are sneaky - they can be anywhere and they often masquerade as people who love children. I'm sure you could google a list of recent examples if you don't believe me. The measures you suggest for keeping sexual predators out of the nursery are not economically feasible for many of the churches I've attended.
I don't think so, but it is possible that this is just a trust issue for me. What I really think is that my kids are a sacred trust and it would violate my conscience to put them in that situation.
Sara,
Thanks for the reply and thoughts.
I think there has been some kind of connection, for whatever reason, in your mind that "male childcare equals child abuse." I'm not sure why this is, but the prejudice you have against men caring for children is a little alarming.
When you say that "Sons should be taught to love children by the people who love them most and are with them the most - where it can be done in a proper, godly and biblical way", I immediately think of the church! Isn't this the place where all of this can/ought to be done well? I mean, if the older women are to instruct the younger women in the church, why can't the same principle apply to the men? And we trust women to teach our boys bible stories and theology, but not what being a good man looks like and what will be expected of him?
If we are going to get all over the men in our church to "be men" and raise the next generation of men in our churches, let's not handcuff them when it comes to their training. Being a man in the church isn't about watching John Wayne movies or using power tools. It's about loving one woman, raising a family, loving God, hating sin, standing up to the world, raging again the Devil, loving and living the gospel, etc.
I don't want to minimize the sin of people, or sound blasé about sins people have had committed against them. But don't let the fear of "what could happen" destroy what we as churches, as the Body of Christ, are responsible to do. My church just went through church discipline on an unrepentant woman who left her husband (and children), and on a missionary who had been hiding an alcohol abuse problem. Do we stop marriages and missions?
As to the economic nature of child safety: I know you can buy a camera that links to an iphone for $129.99. Anyone with an iphone and the IP can access the feed. But let's be honest: this is less about money and more about accountability trust. If it was truly important, we can find the manpower and money to make it happen.
Set rules that are non-negotiable. No one is allowed to take children to the potty except for 2 or 3 people (vetted of course). No one except these people are allowed to do diapers. No one is allowed to leave the nursery area. Everyone works with a "buddy" and that buddy system is on a weekly rotation so you are always working with someone new. Let an older woman work with a younger boy. Let an older man work with a teenage girl. You would be surprised at the kind of amazing, godly relationships that can be fostered.
Sara, if this is a trust issue for you, remember the covenant community you are a part of, and the covenant obligation you have to one another. My wife and children are my highest priority (next to God, of course :). But next to that, it is my church. They are my family. I call them out on sin; they call me out on sin. We worship together. We pray together. We repent together. We grow together. We are, for better or worse, a family. I help with their kids; they help with mine. If they see my child sinning, I expect, even demand that they help me! It is their right as my brother/sister.
Again, I would enjoy to hear your response.
Anonymous,
I feel as though I answered your questions. I don't really have anything to add that wouldn't be repeating myself.
No, I take it back - I do have something to add. If children are a blessing and not a nuisance, then it is illogical that we should send them to a nursery.
Also, please don't read more into what I've written than what is actually there.
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